Stocksdale Pain

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Hermanator
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Location: Northland

Stocksdale Pain

Postby Hermanator » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:05 pm

Well, I rode Stocksdale after work yesterday, and man was it an eye opener. After a year of only sitting in front of a keyboard with work and school, I thought a few road rides would get me going. I was doing 10 mile urban rides about every other day for a couple weeks no problem, but yesterday was my first trail time. Out. Of. Shape. Not as much fun as it should have been, plus still a little wet in spots out there which made it tough with no shoes or clips. Great trails though, definitely lit a fire under me to get fit.

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mtwmbw
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Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby mtwmbw » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:08 pm

Stocksdale will try your fitness, plenty of up and down. It will get you fit.

If it makes you feel better I first met Planet Tony laying flat in the middle of the trail exhausted from his first ride in years. Now he rides 5 laps at a time at Stocksdale.

Muther
Posts: 1951

Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby Muther » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:05 pm

Stocks is very decptive...

It looks easy, technically, and for the most part it is easy. However, thre are very very few recovery zones. It really jacks your heart rate. You grind up a short hill, and relax on the way down which is way to short, then you start grinding up again...

Two steps up, and one step back. I ride it backwards-counter clockwise. the ups ae shorter and steeper, the downs are longer and less steep.

Don't let the evil "clockwise" cowd suck you in, resist them.
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K"

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jlbay
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Location: Kansas City- North

Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby jlbay » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:59 pm

You have to ride it both ways to undo all of the two-stepping hills.

And yes, Stocksdale will get you in shape. I dropped 50 lbs. of fat on those trails. Then I picked 20 of them back up at Smithville post ride. I'm currently trying to get back in Stocksdale shape, again.

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Hermanator
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Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby Hermanator » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:23 pm

I've always ridden it sequential per the numbers on the map starting at 1... counter clockwise I guess it would be. I'll have to try the other direction... at some point. Going to start trying to hit it 3 times a week, I wouldn't mind losing 50lbs of fat myself. I'm pretty rough on some of the technical stuff, need to make a group ride there and watch some people that know what they're doing.

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PlanetTony
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Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby PlanetTony » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:46 am

mtwmbw wrote:Stocksdale will try your fitness, plenty of up and down. It will get you fit.

If it makes you feel better I first met Planet Tony laying flat in the middle of the trail exhausted from his first ride in years. Now he rides 5 laps at a time at Stocksdale.


Ahhh, yes...I do remember that delightful HOT morning when I first met Dr. Matt...7 years off the bike, jumping back on bike at 40 in 95+ degrees/humidity, and 3/4 around the first "old" lap I needed me a little dirt-nap. So, I laid down in the middle of the trail hoping I'd be discovered. I was! I then kicked it back a couplefew notches and rode another lap.

All that to say, oh yeah, I feel ya on the "wake-up call"!

Also, through some extensive-but-not-too-scientific research with my trusty Garmin, I can confidently say that Stocksdale the most elevation gain per mile than any of the other area trails (Smithville, Swope, Landahl, SMP), but does "trick you" due to it's otherwise friendly demeanor.
If it has two wheels, (and...a motor, apparently/lately...) I wanna ride it!

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PlanetTony
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Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby PlanetTony » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:52 am

....oh, and since you didn't ask, I'll go ahead and offer my personal favorite recipe for pain: ride first lap CCW, and when you come out of that do a complete Skillz Loop around the inside field/grass area, then re-enter going CW. It is two different trails depending on direction and you'll get to work on some handling skills between each lap to give the heart & lungs a break while brain-to-muscle coordination gets a work out.

Of course, repeat this drill as many times as you can stand it, altering direction - it works out to damn-near-exactly 5 miles per lap...I like nice even mileage ;)
If it has two wheels, (and...a motor, apparently/lately...) I wanna ride it!

2010 Harley Davidson Street Glide
2015 KTM 200 XCW
Giant XTC Advanced 27.5"
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Lawson_Raider
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Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby Lawson_Raider » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:13 am

I ride ccw because my big carcass needs the best workout possible... I need to be in shape even though I am not there yet.
This thread likely ends here.

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Anejo
Posts: 171

Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby Anejo » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:30 am

PlanetTony wrote:Also, through some extensive-but-not-too-scientific research with my trusty Garmin, I can confidently say that Stocksdale the most elevation gain per mile than any of the other area trails (Smithville, Swope, Landahl, SMP), but does "trick you" due to it's otherwise friendly demeanor.



I've long suspected that to be the case, but as others have said, its very deceptive and the climbing just kind of sneaks up on you, probably because there's only 75-80' of difference between min and max elevations, so the overall terrain doesn't look that intimidating.

I think your elevation-gain-per-mile research would be a very interesting stat to post for each trail in the area.

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mtwmbw
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Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby mtwmbw » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:52 am

Anejo wrote:

I think your elevation-gain-per-mile research would be a very interesting stat to post for each trail in the area.



I did this once for Stocksdale vs. SMV and found that Stocksdale had about 30% more climbing per mile. I haven't checked other trails. I agree that it would be interesting to know this for each trail system.

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PlanetTony
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Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby PlanetTony » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:44 pm

OK...I checked my "tour of area trails" from first week of April, and here's what it showed in gain-per-mile by taking total Garmin-reported elevation gain divided by Garmin-recorded miles ridden:

Stocksdale - 84' 3"
Smithville - 55' 3"
Swope - 76' 5"
Clinton Lake- 60' 4"
Landahl - 76' 3"
Shawnee Mission- 69' 9"

Now, the un-scientific part is that I rode combinations of trails at each park - multiple trails, multiple laps, various directions, all 20 mile or more sessions. This might add validity to the overall data, as I should've touched a bit of everything at each place, but this one Stocksdale ride show's more feet-per-mile than all my other rides at Stocksdale - maybe due to greazy conditions I skipped flatter sections...? Didn't do Phase 3 each lap...? Not exactly sure.

Anyway, at the very least, Stocksdale is still right up there with the lumpiest of trails. Reviewing ALL of my rides there, (323+ miles, 24,500+ feet of gain) puts it right on 76' per mile. In any case, I'd still say it's far sneakier climbing than Swope or Landahl.

Most surprising to me is that Clinton Lake and SMP feel like a lot more climbing, but it may just be because both of those places have some long-ish sustained climbs instead of the constant up/down of other trails.

So...how's THAT for some almost useful info...??? ;)
If it has two wheels, (and...a motor, apparently/lately...) I wanna ride it!

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Anejo
Posts: 171

Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby Anejo » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:57 pm

Great info!

I bet Wyco and Krug have pretty high numbers as well. Like Stocksdale, they are built on substantial periglacial loess formations that offer quite a bit of topographical relief.

Muther
Posts: 1951

Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby Muther » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:40 am

My observation is that most of the others have extended recovery zones where you can relax and your heart rate has a chance to drop. Stocks' has none, or very little, of that. As soon as the climb is over, its a winding twisting descent, no chance to relax your mind, your heart rate drops a little, but then its over very quickly, and all of a sudden your grinding up another mini-hill. Once you're at the top of that one, your heart rate is now above where it was at the top of the previous climb.

Rinse. Repeat.

That is what is so deceptive about it. There is no place to just relax and cruise. You have to be "on it" all the time. Up or down, no in-between.
"Strange things are afoot at the Circle K"

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PlanetTony
Posts: 571
Location: Northlands of K.C.

Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby PlanetTony » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:13 pm

Anejo wrote:Great info!

I bet Wyco and Krug have pretty high numbers as well. Like Stocksdale, they are built on substantial periglacial loess formations that offer quite a bit of topographical relief.


Man, I love data! Took a quick look at this for Krug (based on course used for the Roundup) and WYCO (from last Fall's Revenge) and it looks like this:

Krug = 109' 6" per mile
WYCO = 77' 7" per mile

So...my personal opinion is that Buzz's "no recovery" theory is what makes Stocksdale such a challenge, but seem's Krug is all that plus 30' per mile!

Oh, and in the FWIW department, I did 50-ish miles in Pisgah and DuPont forests (North Carolina) last fall and those miles were to the tune of 118' 9"/mile. Seems "the flat Midwest" ain't so darn flat anywhere around KC!
If it has two wheels, (and...a motor, apparently/lately...) I wanna ride it!

2010 Harley Davidson Street Glide
2015 KTM 200 XCW
Giant XTC Advanced 27.5"
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NHabes79
Posts: 574

Re: Stocksdale Pain

Postby NHabes79 » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:04 am

PlanetTony wrote:....oh, and since you didn't ask, I'll go ahead and offer my personal favorite recipe for pain: ride first lap CCW, and when you come out of that do a complete Skillz Loop around the inside field/grass area, then re-enter going CW. It is two different trails depending on direction and you'll get to work on some handling skills between each lap to give the heart & lungs a break while brain-to-muscle coordination gets a work out.

Of course, repeat this drill as many times as you can stand it, altering direction - it works out to damn-near-exactly 5 miles per lap...I like nice even mileage ;)


Interesting discussion. I just about figured Tony's climbing/mile KC trail rankings all by 'feel'. You see, my legs are extremely sensitive to the force of gravity and %grade values on trails. I can detect down to a 0.001% increase in grade while riding. Yes, it is a amazing, I know. In simple layman's terms, If I have to continue pedaling in order to prevent myself from rolling backwards, I'm going up hill. Even Clinton and Shawnee Mission Park did not have me fooled. I know the difference in pain between pedaling up hill and trudging through rocks on relatively flat areas. Even though Clinton has more than a few technical up hill areas, they are relatively short... they just don't feel short due to the amount of difficult rock to get over. The only mistake I made is I put Stocksdale at the #2 slot and Wyco at #1. My legs would have sworn Wyco had the most climbing/mile. Tony, are you including the 1.8 mile loop across the dam at Wyco? Oh, and I didn't include Krug into my leg analysis as I've never ridden there, but the data tells me I should probably avoid it.

I'm going to have to try out your recipe for pain. Just last Thursday I did 3 laps at Stocksdale for the first time. I'm fairly certain 10 more minutes of riding would have required a visit to the hospital. I like how you say the inner loop is a lungs and heart break. I have to muscle over everything in the skillz loop. No break for me. I think I'll just try the skillz loop after my first lap and see if I can do 2 more laps for another 3 lap night. I too get almost exactly 5 miles from my Garmin every time I ride a lap, but Clay would swear it is 6 miles. Stocksdale does have a large number of switchbacks so maybe the GPS devices are cutting off some distance.... I don't know about a full mile though.


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